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Commentaire par AnonShawi le 10 Janvier 2009 à 23 30

Merci peter, mais tu pourrait copier le tout dans les threads appropriés?

Ca serait moin mêlant :)

Commentaire par Scythe le 10 Janvier 2009 à 16 32

anonymous delivers

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 10 20

petite erreur: dictature = dictatorship

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 9 29

6e page

B : It makes no sense. It’s impossible. I want to make a point. I listened to you interview with Mr Dubreuil yesterday and I want to tell you my personal opinion on Mr Dubreuil. I think it’s sad what happened to him 20 years ago. I don’t know what happened to him. I’m familiar with the case. But I wish to say that Mr Dubreuil was probably the victim of a big injustice. Because we sense that in his discourse. We sense that it was a very difficult moment for him. So I don’t know what really happened, but I wanted to say that. It’s a shame.

L : What he said and wrote is that it’s your movement that prevents him from talking to his children and ex-wife. The judgement is made. Once you’re out, you’re bad. Just like the Jehovah’s witnesses. Is that the case?

B : Well no. It’s not true. It’s not true. I know his two sons and his ex-wife. I even met them at the end of summer and they told me their desire to get back in contact with the father and get repare what happened. I don’t know where they’re at in the process. I think there’s a big misunderstanding.

L : You have the right to get out and be able to talk with those still in?

B : Well yes. We can’t stop someone. It’s really… Not desinformation, but a bad interpretation. It’s interprating things the wrong way. I told you there no bad religion. There is no bad religion. There can be very bad embassadors nonetheless. You know there so many sad things happening in the name of religions and that’s not what religion is about. Look well. It’s the embassadors that make them sad things. Probably Mr Dubreuil was a victim of that kind of person. I don’t know what happened.

L : I heard other scientologists in the U.S. who were more radical, espacially towards psychiatrists. They see them as charlatans. I find you nicer than them. Maybe your church has evolved. Maybe the church in Quebec is different than that of the U.S. What I heard in that regard was more radical.

B : We cannot deny that there are many crimes in different fields. Facts have been exposed. Some of them by scientologists. Others maybe in the name of certain churches. But it remains that they’re not things… How could I say… Do you know what I mean? We cannot up front say that a given situation is because of a movement or it happened because of this movement when it’s just an individual that made a mistake somewhere. You see?

L : Well thank Ms Belanger. Are you a minister or a priest?

B : No. I’m not a minister.

L : You’re just a follower. How many followers are there in Quebec?

B : In Quebec, we are a few thousand. But I can’t tell you exactly because it’s hard to get an exact number. That’s because people come to get services and go back. Maybe they use scientology at home but it’s hard to decifer. But I can tell you that in Quebec city there may be 200 that come to the church once… There may be 100 each week and 200 from time to time.

L : The thing is you keep saying they’re buying something. I still sounds like a business. Well often religion involves business. Thank you Ms Belanger. Goodbye.

B : Goodbye.

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 9 14

il y a probablement des fautes, mais laissez le texte comme tel sans trop changer, parce que Karine était de toute façon mélangée dans ses idées. S'il y a des phrases qui font pas de sens c'est de sa faute. lol

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 8 32

5e page

L : Because you are present everywhere.

B : Well yes. I don’t know how many countries. There are 162 churches in the world. There are smaller churches that we call missions and there are even more of those.

L : Doesn’t it work like running business? It makes money. It becomes a capitalistic entreprise rather than a church.

B : Not at all. All the material and audition sold comes back to the church. It’s a non-profit organization. We are recognized as a religious corporation in Quebec that is non-profit. Nobody is putting money in his pocket with this.

L : We know non-profit organizations giving big salaries to it’s members. We have seen non-profit organizations being quite profitable for those in it.

B : Not us.

L : Let’s talk numbers. Let’s say I want to by the 18 books, have a purification from toxins and then an audition. How much would it cost me?

B : Well, I don’t remember all the prices. I know the purification rundown is about 2000$. It’s an intensive session that lasts from 2 weeks to 1 month. It covers vitamins and material. There is always somebody there to take care of you. So it covers all fees regarding this rundown. That’s a number I know.

L : Plus the books.

B : The books. Let’s say you want to buy the 18 book collection. I think they’re 400$ if I’m not mistaking. They’re really great looking quality books. They’re worth at least 40$ each.

L : I read somewhere that the toxin elimination was 1600$. Does that make sense?

B : Yes. That’s probably it.

L : Well if I take the whole package, it adds up to 4000$. That’s pretty good. The guy who sold it to me just made 400$ like other people. Profits on books, etc. It’s a business.

B : Noooo. It’s not a business. Really not. It can be brought up like that but that’s not it. Nobody makes profits with this, on the contrary. That’s really not it. Just take the books. At the publisher in LA, all that is sold goes back to to the publisher. That’s one of the biggest publishers in the U.S. It’s all used for reprint. Do you understand? It’s illogical.

L : Mr Dubreuil says he was in the clerical system, and, although it wasn’t told to lower class members, the goal was control the earth and impose a scientology dictature.

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 8 32

4e page

L : What do you offer besides elimination of toxins?

B : We offer people Ron Hubbard material. Ron Hubbard is the founder. His material has 18 books accessible to all. It’s easy to read, very simple. We offer auditions, courses. People are free to come, to get some material and courses. So it begins maybe at 30$ for the courses. It’s simply to come and get informations, data… That’s it, on life in general. It becomes a philosophy that you can apply, like I said.

L : Do you have rituals? Baptisms, communions, things likes that?

B : In fact, we have an office every sunday at church at 11h15. A text by Mr Hubbard is read. We also have marriages legaly recognized. We have baptisms, funerals, all that. absolutely.

L : Who is Hubbard for you? Jesus, Saint John the Baptist? Is he a prophet for you?

B : No. First, Mr Hubbard is a great philanthropist from the last century, I think. I twas someone very close to the human being. He wanted to know how the human being worked and why we didn’t have answers to fondamental questions.

L : Is he a guru or what? People asking questions don’t necesseraly have people around them. If there are hundreds and now thousands of people following his philosophy, than he’s a guru.

B : No. Not at all. It’s somebody who wrote books and exposed his research. And people who are interested in it, read and apply it. He’s not a guru. He’s never been someone that was followed. I mean, with the concept of the word that you used. Not at all. On the contrary, he was extremely respected in his field. He was a researcher, a scientific man and a prolific author, really. It’s worth reading at least one scientology book wrote by him.

L : What Mr Dubreuil said was that you are booksellers first and foremost. You sell products. You just said 30$ to begin with. He it was then 300$ and 500$ and then formations at 700-800$. You make money and more money. It’s a company rolling. A person in the company makes his 10% and founds his interest like that. So in the end you have a megastructure with rather rich people on top. Isn’t it?

B : No. It doesn’t work. Things like that don’t work. That would be illegal. That would be playing against the system.

L : But you’re contested in many countries, like in Europe. In Germany, they wanted to throw out Tom Cruise so he couldn’t shoot his last film on WW2 just because he was a scientologist.

B : It’s terrible. I know it’s terrible. Personally, I find it terrible. In fact we are more and more recognized everywhere.

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 8 30

3e page

Scientology. It would also seem that he was, quote unquote, cured from homosexuality, because it is looked upon as an illness by you. So what is homosexuality for you, an illness or not?

B : It’s a sexual orientation, M. Levesque. Nothing more than that. It always hurts my ears to hear that. Personaly, I work to promote human rights. To see that they are respected as much as possible. We were celebrating on december 10th the 60th anniversary of the universal declaration on human rights. If I go back to the goal of religions that is : «peace on earth», how can we get to that by categorizing and by eliminating categories of people on earth?

L : Do you want to change their sexual behavior?

B : No. It’s something personal to them. I have nothing against it. I mean, whether you have faith or not, whether you are blue, white, red, black, whether you’re homosexual or heterosexual, married or not, what does it change? It doesn’t change anything. You’re a human being like me.

L : Why then is there a belief that you want to change homosexuals?

B : It’s not true. That can’t be.

L : You’re the one who knows, not me. There is also the illimination of toxins. Your are adepts of toxin illimination. What is it? Is it a kind of communion or confession or something sacred?

B : No. Not at all. It’s a path of auditioning that begins by what we call in scientology the purification rundown. It a first step that we go throught before getting auditions. We purify the body. There are many ways to do it. I know someone who does it otherwise, but we do it throught sauna. We take vitamins, minerals, do exercise and have intensive sauna.

L : So having a sauna becomes a religious act?

B : No. That’s not the way I would put it. I would say it’s an activity that is part of a spiritual path. The activity is to purify body of toxins. I would’t say that having a sauna is a spiritual act. Not at all.

L : What is neurolinguistics? (troll tactic! nice!)

B : Neurolinguistics?

L : I read that somewhere, something that caracterized you. You’re supposed to use neurolinguistics. Something that you’re offering.

B : No. Ah! I don’t know.

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 8 29

2e page:

B : There is nothing written on how you must think of death. Do you understand? It’s more about how I think of it for myself. It’s not imposed. I musn’t believe that such or such will happen after death. Not at all. It’s me, with myself. What I think of it.

L : It’s for you to decide?

B : Well yes.

L : Is there a caring God?

B : For me yes.

L : For you but not for Travolta?

B : There is a force, a power that exists. We describe it as the 8th dymanic. If I can talk a little about a Scientology concept called the 8 dymanics, well the first dynamic is called the self, which describes our body, health. When we talk about the self, that’s the first dymanic. Then we have the second dynamic that is the family, the couple. That’s another cell… The family cell is a dynamic, the second dynamic. We have the third dynamic that is the group dynamic. We evolve throught groups like in sports, in our workplace. There’s always a group somewhere that we’re attached to and throught which we evolve. Then there’s a 4th dynamic called the humanity dynamic. So the concept of humanity on the level of whether the color or race or people’s beliefs would be the 4th dynamic. Then there is the 5th that is all living species. So the more you grow in the dynamics, the more it expands. We describe it using circles. So the 1st dynamic, 2nd dynamic, and we grow like that. So the 5th would be all living species. The 6th is the material world, that includes… the material world : the table, the chair, the cars, trees, the sky, etc. And the 7th that is the spiritual being. So the dynamic of the spiritual being that we call a thetan in Scientology. It’s not an invented word. It’s a greek letter that means spirit, soul. And the 8th dynamic that is the dynamic of God, of infinity. You can call it what you want. It would be that concept. We talk about that in the 8th dynamic. The concept of God that is. But that’s very personal. We can make a very personal image of it.

L : The way I see it until now is that it’s a way of life.

B : well yes.

L : When we get back, I want to talk about the fact that you are often accused as being a cult. Some have a way of life where they don’t charge a penny. But, when you start charging money… Well, that’s what concerns people : organised cults. We’ll get back and talk about it.

L : With me : Karine Belanger from the Chuch of Scientology. Ms Belanger, we try to draw a picture of your movement. Yesterday, we talk about homosexuality (see JP Dubreuil video). It seems J. Travolta is involved in speculations about whether he’s homosexual or not in the US. The TIME wrote that he was hiding that fact by getting into

Commentaire par peterstorm le 10 Janvier 2009 à 8 29

karine pwned, à partir de 7 minutes

B : We affirm our spirituality with the colors that we want. Some do it throught their religion, others will do it in other ways. What is important is to see and be conscious that an illness may be physical but it can have another cause. If one can do both, we get a good result in my view.

L : You deny the effectiveness of anti-depressants (AD). I remember the controversy around Tom Cruise and Brooke Shields. She had severe post-partum depression and used AD but Tom Cruise criticized her for it. She was angry about that! So you’re against AD?

B : Listen, I’m no expert in that field. From what I observed, for myself, is that there may be a rather quick prescription of drugs for many illnesses or problems. We tend to get prescribed all sorts of things like AD. But maybe a person is just tired or has physical needs like vitamins, minerals or to do more exercise. I think prescriptions are swift in some cases. I don’t know what happened in Brooke Shields’ case but I can understand Tom Cruise’s reaction in that situation. But to say that we are against it… I’m no expert. All I can say…

L : Let’s say your doctor tells you : «you have a burn out» and prescribes you AD, would you take them?

B : No. Not at all. I don’t think it would help me. I would try other things, really.

L : For religious reasons or medical beliefs? They’re two different things.

B : No, it’s personnal. Very personnal.

L : There are no religious prescription regarding this?

B : No. Absolutely not.

L : Now, let’s look at it this way. What does you’re religion say, compared to catholics, muslims, bouddhists? What makes you different? What do you say?

B : We’re not that different from others. In terms of comparison, application, spiritual living, I think Scientology is often compared to bouddism, in the sens that it’s a personal journey. A person evolve on its own with the writings of M. Hubbard, throught auditions and courses. Nothing is imposed. That’s where it’s similar to bouddhism. In Scientology there’s no imposed faith. It’s personal. You discover it on your own. You take it if it suits you. It’s simple. It’s so simple in fact.

L : Where does it evolve to? To some wellbeing? What do you want in life?

B : Self respect to better respect others I think. There is nothing else.

L : Is there some paradise after death? A last judgement? How do you see death?

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